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Hansard 1909 - featuring Troughgate 1909, dacoity and gotcha o' the day

Wednesday, August 05, 2009
Yet more outbreaks of plus ça change:

Naval Reviews

"Sir FREDERICK BANBURY asked what has been the cost to the taxpayer of the three recent naval displays this summer, including the cost of conveyance and entertainment of Members of both Houses of Parliament?

Mr. McKENNA The special expenditure incurred in connection with the 1978 recent naval displays amounts to about £1,800.

Sir F. BANBURY May I ask the right hon. Gentleman whether I am correct in supposing that, as there were three naval displays, each cost £333 6s. 8d., and that the remaining £800 is made up of the expense of providing Members of Parliament with railway tickets?

Mr. McKENNA Oh, no; the hon. Gentleman would be entirely in error. The whole cost of the last naval display was £800, including the railway tickets, lunch, tea, and use of the ship. The railway tickets cannot be a very large part of that.

All right for some, burning our money etc etc.

Just what were the Russians up to?:

Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAY asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether British subjects inheriting land in Poland and the western governments of Russia are obliged to sell their land within three years, while German subjects are allowed to retain their land for 10 years; and whether he will endeavour to secure equally good treatment for British subjects?

The SECRETARY of STATE for FOREIGN AFFAIRS (Sir Edward Grey)

The Imperial Ukaz of 14th March, 1887, by which I understand that these cases are still regulated, makes no distinction between foreign subjects of different nationalities who inherit land in the Kingdom of Poland, the Baltic Provinces, and the Western Government of Russia, as regards the time allowed them for the sale of their real property, which is three years in every case where that property has been acquired by indirect inheritance or by intestacy. As far as I am aware, this law is applied to all nationalities alike, but I will ask His Majesty's Chargé d'Affaires at St. Petersburg to report on the subject.
A nation eagerly awaited the answer, no doubt. I think the word 'ukaz' needs more use in these parts, frankly

And if was not the bear doing us wrong (maybe), it was the black eagle:

Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAY asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs, whether he has received any official information to the effect that the Russian officers in the Persian army are to be replaced by German officers; and whether this change meets with the sanction of His Majesty's Government under the Anglo-Russian Convention?

Sir E. GREY Russian officers have been employed with the Persian Cossacks for many years. I am not aware of any reason why they should be displaced to make room for those of any other nationality, nor have I any information to show that such a step is contemplated.

Mr. J. D. REES Have we any power under the Anglo-Russian Convention to object to the employment of the officers of any nationality that the Persians might wish to employ?

Sir E. GREY There is nothing about this question in the Anglo-Russian Convention.
What was that Khamenei said about our government being the 'most evil' leading to the puffing up of patriotic chests across the nation?

Elsewhere, outbreaks of dacoity:

Sir HENRY COTTON asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether he has now obtained official information of a case reported from Bahraich, in the United Provinces, in April last, in which innocent landholders were convicted of dacoity on false evidence manufactured by the police?

The UNDER-SECRETARY for INDIA (The Master of Elibank) There has not been time for a reply to be received to the inquiry made of the Government of India.

Dacoity is done by a dacoit, the crime being one of armed robbery. Other words that need to make a comeback in these parts.

Staying with India:

Mr. REES asked the Under-Secretary of State for India whether the rank and file and the petty officers, and all but the chief controlling officers, of the police in the Upper Provinces, Bengal, and the Punjab are natives of India; whether he has any official information showing that they belong exclusively or chiefly to exceptionally low, uneducated, or criminal classes of the population.

The MASTER of ELIBANK It is the case that except for a few European police officers in the Presidency, all but the chief controlling officers of the police are natives of India; they are recruited from the literate and respectable classes, and not from those mentioned in the question.
And I would hope so too


The all important question of the Dilke return:

Mr. MIDDLEMORE (Con) asked whether the Dilke Return for 1909 contains only such information as is known to be correct?

Mr. McKENNA The reply to the hon. Member's question is in the affirmative.

And then, shazam - GOTCHA:

Mr. MIDDLEMORE I have carefully examined the Return, and I find there are some 18 or 21 rather serious mistakes. Will the right hon. Gentleman investigate them, and let me know the result? I shall accept his judgment.

Mr. McKENNA If my hon. Friend will send me a list of the mistakes I shall try to have them amended.

Doubtless the Member for Selly Oak was dining out on that for weeks.

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posted by Croydonian

The French predict a riot

Tuesday, May 05, 2009
Or rather 'a social explosion', which might well be rather more dramatic than some desultory lobbing of cobblestones at the CRS.

And here are the figures, party by party, with the first five representing the Left, then the Liberals, then the Gaullists, then the Front and then 'those without partisan sympathies'.



Gaullists are the least convinced of a 'social explosion', followed by the Liberals, the Greens and the old school Trots of Lutte Ouvrière. A high proportion of the latter probably discount the possibility of événements for ideological reasons. At the other end of the scale are the Communists and the Front, with 82% and 86% expecting things to kick off.

Away from political parties, women are more convinced it will happen at 74% to 56% for men, as are 35-64 year olds (70%). Parisians are the most optimistic (in my terms, that is), with 56% of the conurbation concerned, compared to 69% in the NW, SE and SW. One is tempted to think that the fear of civil unrest increases with the relative unlikelihood of participating, as 18-24 year olds - the backbone age cohort of any riot, revolution, pointless demo - are among the least convinced at 64%.

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posted by Croydonian

A brief observation on Sir Fred Goodwin

Wednesday, March 25, 2009
The man has been demonised by politicians for weeks on end, with this lead followed with much vim by the media and thus parts of the public. Given that level of incitement, it is hardly surprising that some have seen fit to engage in criminal acts against his property. Doubtless there are some who would like to form a lynching party.

Envy, one might note, is a particularly loathsome state of mind, and I will not be at all surprised if there will be dog whistle messages of approval coming from some quarters of the commentariat. Were I Sir Fred, I would be booking a one way ticket out of here.

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posted by Croydonian

Men (and women) behaving badly.

Wednesday, March 18, 2009
C/O Hansard:

Paul Holmes: To ask the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many people have been issued with penalty notice disorders for being drunk and disorderly in each of the last three years.

The table breaks down the figures by police authority and by gender, and Lancashire's Finest were the keenest on dishing out PNDs last year at just shy of 5900. They were better behaved on the other side of the country, or the plod were less trigger happy, with all of 77 issued in Lincolnshire.

What is perhaps more interesting is the ratio of male to female penalty notices, with the ladies policed by the Northumbria Constabulary (includes Newcastle) the least genteel at a ratio of 3.3:1, compared to 5.2:1 nationally and 11.8:1 in Lincolnshire. Surrey ladies defy the stereotype at 3.7:1. Also nicked at a rate of less than or equal to one for every five men were the ladies of Lancashire, Greater Manchester, Cheshire, Merseyside and West Yorkshire. The Met's area lags the national average at 6.2:1

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posted by Croydonian

Brevity is the soul of wit

Wednesday, March 04, 2009
Anyone who has ever watched an American cop drama, whether TV or film (so that's everyone, I imagine) will have noted the nifty mottos of the various police forces - 'To Protect and Serve' for the LAPD and so forth.

Now we have an equivalent, and it is not *quite* as punchy, the Police Pledge running as it does to 689 words. I will spare readers a full version, but it is available here.

The opening sentence reeks of having been written by committee: "The police service in England and Wales will support law abiding citizens and pursue criminals relentlessly to keep you and your neighbourhoods safe from harm".

And it goes downhill from there, believe me.

I think the ten word prime directives from, cough, Robocop would take some outdoing: "Serve the public trust, protect the innocent, uphold the law".

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posted by Croydonian

Bedford - twinned with Dodge City?

Tuesday, March 03, 2009
I ask, as the figures for police firearm use in 2007-8 are in, courtesy of a statement in the Lords.

The Met leads, with a shade under 5000 operations seeing the boys and girls in blue going in tooled up, followed by the West Midlands at 2,350. And then Bedfordshire, at 1,217 - double last year's figures and outdoing Greater Manchester, West Yorkshire and the other conurbations. Note that Bedfordshire is only 36th by population.

Are Leighton Buzzard and Biggleswade so infested with tasty villains that Bedfordshire's finest really have to go out with semi-automatics nigh on four times a day, every day?

Mind you, out came the Glocks in Cumbria 92 times last year.

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posted by Croydonian

Thin skin spreads to France

Monday, February 09, 2009
Now that everyone in these parts has jumped on the 'I'm offended' bus, here's one from our Gallic chums, courtesy of some possibly ill-judged remarks by a magistrate involved in the disciplinary hearing for a judge who presided at the trial of a child abuse ring:

'We know those normal evenings in Boulogne or Avesnes-sur-Helpe. Beery evenings where one invites the neighbours, one drinks too much, one plays cards or a board game and the winner gets to choose a little girl, with the blessing of the parents'.

Presumably it is the last bit that has upset two French MPs, Françoise Hostalier (Gaullist) and Jean-Luc Pérat (Socialist), neither of whom appear to have had especially spectacular parliamentary careers. Françoise says she is 'wounded, humiliated and revolted' by he comment and wants a public apology and disciplinary measures against Didier Beauvais, the magistrate in question. Apparently 'he has insulted the inhabitants of an entire region'. When insults are hurled at South Londoners, the English, white middle-aged men or some other group I am associated with, there is not that much of a sting, frankly.

One would think that northerners would be used to it by now.

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posted by Croydonian

Pulse-quickening headline o' the day

Monday, February 02, 2009
They know all about media magnets, impact and share of eyeball at the Met's press office, as this demonstrates:

"Met maintains policing services"

Didn't that just make you sit bolt upright and pay attention?

I would think that in terms of surprises, that rates alongside 'sun rises', and 'Traffic plod says to speeding driver "Think you are Lewis 'amilton, do you sir?"'.

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posted by Croydonian

Astonishing policing insight o' the day

This from Finnish daily Helsingin Sanomat, reporting the thoughts of an FBI bod sojourning in parts Finnish:

"[Mary Ellen] O’Toole’s message was that it is impossible to draw up a reliable profile to identify a [school] killer in advance...Mary Ellen O’Toole emphasised that kids can say that they hate school and the whole world, and that nobody understands them. It is hard to recognise how serious such comments are. Many school pupils can do very crazy things without being up to perpetrating a massacre".

Well worth paying her to fly over to deliver those particular pearls of wisdom, eh?



As a footnote, my 1977 declaration that I was going to wait until I was thirty, when a much loathed P.E teacher would be 50 odd, and then hunt him down and tear out his viscera with a rusty bread knife turned out to be just so much talk. Fancy. Still, I hope plenty of unpleasant things have happened to him in the last 32 years.

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posted by Croydonian

Suspiciously focused crime waves

Friday, January 23, 2009
From Hansard:

"Mr. Grieve: To ask the Secretary of State for Justice how many fines for the non-payment of penalty notices for disorder (PND) were registered by the courts in each of the last four years, broken down by (a) the offence for which the PND was issued and (b) how many fines were paid on time in full".

Straw was unable to give the breakdown sought, but the detail on PNDs that emerges is intriguing. Here are some examples:

Sale of alcohol to a drunken person -
2004 - 0,
2005 - 11,927
2006 - 9,
2007 - 9

Possession of an adult firework by an under 18 -
2004 - 7
2005 - 4,702
2006 - 21
2007 - 31


Theft (retail <£200) -
2004 - 1,128
2005 - 60
2006 -21,157
2007 - 24,344

Those are just the most extreme examples, but there are plenty more oddities in the table.

I am, broadly, in favour of police discretion, but the ebb and flow of figures for some of these offences is absurd.

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posted by Croydonian

Who's afraid of riots à la Grecque?

Monday, December 15, 2008
There have been minor outbreaks of copycat riots in parts of the continent, if not here, presumably because the rioting classes do not pay much heed to international news. Anyway, in a remarkably responsible fashion, one of the French regional dailies has been asking the Plain People of France whether riots are heading their way soon.

And the good people of Ifop have the results, and furthermore a series of demographic breakdowns.

The least likely to think that the French will have some événements are the young themselves - 64% of 18-24 year oldS think riots possible, compared to 77% of 50-64 year olds. And broadly speaking, the more educated the respondent, the less concerned he or she is about the possibility of riots.

Geographically, Parisians are the least alarmed at 67%, followed by South Easterners at 69%. The North East, which is the epicentre for that grand of French tradition of car burning, is the most concerned at 76%. French New Year's Day news reports, near as damn it, give league tables of the cities with the most cars immolated the evening before. Yes, really.

In terms of political allegiance, Bayrou's Modem party is the least worried, or the most complacent at 58%, followed by Sarko's UMP at 66%. The Communists and Trots manage 66 and 67% respectively. The latter must be appalled. Perhaps they should, in the best Brechtian tradition, seek to elect a new working class. The Socialists manage 79%, but far and away the most concerned are Frontistes at 89%.

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posted by Croydonian

An argument for doing jury service. Apart from civic duty

Friday, November 21, 2008
This from US gossip etc site Radar, reporting on 'Jury Appreciation Day' (I'm *not* making this up):

"[newsreader Katie] Couric added that the line she likes best about jury duty was uttered by Dr. Ruth Westheimer, who said, "It's a great way to pick up guys."

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posted by Croydonian

A very brief observation on the Lords' vote on 42 days

Tuesday, October 14, 2008
To adapt Gerald Ford:

"Our long national nightmare is over. Our Constitution works; our great nation is a government of laws and not of men. Here the people rule".

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posted by Croydonian

A brief observation on the fall of Ian Blair

Friday, October 03, 2008
Or a thousand years ago, pt II.

I cannot say I will miss the man, but for once now is not the time for character assassinations. However, given the great monsoons of cant raining down from all points Left at the moment, I ask readers of my vintage - or older - to cast their minds back to the pretty well entirely forgotten James Anderton, former head of the Manchester police, AKA God's Cop.

Anderton was robust in his faith and was given to making comments on homosexuals that were some way beyond his brief:

"His personal Christian beliefs, his fearlessness in expressing them and his hard-line moral stance made him the scourge of the liberal left and frequently brought into question his suitability to run Greater Manchester Police.

In some ways Anderton was a paradoxical figure - regarded by many as probably Greater Manchester's most popular senior officer, and by others as the very worst".

How long would he have lasted as head of the Met had Livingstone had the ability to 'persaude' him to go, I wonder?

As a footnote, I will offer the usual odds (Lombard Street to a rotten orange) that Blair will have wormed his way into any number of quangos by this time next year.

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posted by Croydonian

Common sense takes the day off

Thursday, September 25, 2008
Or, as I have remarked before, continues its round the world cruise in a first class cabin, pausing only to harass room service, rather than going back to work.

Anyway, way back lost in the mists of time I noted the following:

"In possibly the silliest proposal by any government in living memory, the Dutch Health Ministry is proposing to ban smoking in the nation's infamous cannabis 'coffee' shops"....One Dutch MP noted that this "would be the same as banning alcohol in pubs".

And yea, it has come to pass. Ish.

"On Monday the owner of a coffee-shop of Amsterdam was caught smoking a joint mixed with tobacco in his bar. This detail did not escape a patrolling police officer, who fined him - not for the spliff itself, still tolerated [under Dutch law], but because of the tobacco, outlawed since July 1. There would not have been a fine if the contravener had rolled a pure grass or hashish joint".

There's little point in re-hashing the pro / con arguments again, but would those who value their lungs etc rather breathe in ambient tobacco smoke, or ambient dope smoke?

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posted by Croydonian

If you holiday in France, don't send rude postcards

Wednesday, September 24, 2008
Or you could end up risking a €175,000 fine and three years in la Grande Maison for 'disturbing public order and endangering the mental well-being of children through pornography ', like 'erotic post art' exponent Philippe Pissier (real name).

Rather than the out of context phalli of classical statuary etc so beloved of stag holidayers in Greece and so forth, PP thought it would be a terrific idea to send pictures of a woman wearing clothes pegs on her nipples from an exhibition in Germany (And they call S&M le vice anglais....) to sundry recipients in France. I do wonder whether he included the boilerplate text of 'lovely weather, wish you were here' or something more waggish like 'look at the girl I met!!' and if he wrote to his Ma. One of them ended on the desk of a deeply unamused minor legal functionary in Cahors who has opted to throw the book at him.

Note the detail added in the comments by an anonymous poster. It casts this apparently amusing tale - for all bar M Pissier - in a rather different light.

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posted by Croydonian

A national humiliation

Saturday, September 20, 2008
Not for us - for once - but for Spain:

"A delegation of police and government officials from the Spanish North African enclave of Melilla were forced to seek refuge in a hairdressing salon on the Moroccan side of the border on Thursday after they were attacked by a group of people angry at a recent increase in border checks".

(snigger)


I wonder if they were asked where they were going for their holidays.

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posted by Croydonian

Dublin's latest tourist attraction

Tuesday, September 02, 2008
If Dublin Castle, the Joyce museum etc fail to satisfy, the Hibernian authorities have come up with something to thrill Dubliner and tourist alike:

"Gardaí will today display alcohol confiscated over three weekends from under 18s since new powers were introduced to crack down on street drinking".

Erm, surely folk lusting after empty bottles can just hang out by the nearest bottle bank, and those who like full bottles can station themselves in the nearest off licence?

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posted by Croydonian

You should see the state of the bus...

Tuesday, August 12, 2008
From the Met's site, this arresting opening sentence:

"Police in Kingston have issued CCTV images of a man they wish to trace in connection with a serious assault on a bus".

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posted by Croydonian

A start

Monday, July 28, 2008
From Pravda Central:

"Every neighbourhood in England and Wales will have access to the latest local crime information through new interactive crime maps, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith announced today.

....

By the end of the year every police force area will produce crime maps which will allow the public to:

* see where and when crime has happened, down to street level for some crimes;

* make comparisons with other areas; and

* learn how crime is being tackled by their local neighbourhood policing team".


So, a start, and the provision of fuller geographical data is to be welcomed. However, I fully expect the finished article to lack the capacity to drill down to the data that John and Joanne Q Citizen actually want. What I demand is information on crimes against property and against the person to post code / street level, a user friendly interface that the average person can manipulate to bring up the data they want, not an interface that only the illuminati can use. A weekly update map in the local paper would be very welcome, and entirely doable.

Beyond that, yes, I still want elected sheriffs, I want data on police patrols, arrests, clear up rates and convictions.

A bit more rumination and I may add to my wish list.

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posted by Croydonian