An interesting one:

BRITISH INDIANS IN SOUTH AFRICA.

Anyone who has seen the film 'Gandhi' will recall that a certain Indian lawyer was treated none too kindly while out in Natal. Anyway, the text at issue:

Mr. T. HART-DAVIES presented a Petition, signed by 8,500 people of the Residency of Madras, praying the House to take into consideration the condition of the Indian subjects of His Majesty in the Transvaal, and to adopt such measures as may appear necessary to secure the repeal of the Asiatic Law Amendment Act, 1907, and the fair and considerate treatment to which British Indians in the South African Colonies are entitled as British subjects.

A bit of digging reveals some speeches relating to the ALAA 1907 in the Lords in 1908, elements of which are liable to make one's flesh creep. Indians out Randwards were unhappy about being fingerprinted, inter alia, for ID purposes :

Lord Ampthill. (Con)...To us as an Imperial race it cannot but be gratifying that our Indian fellow subjects should have learnt from us and have adopted that which is best in our political methods, that they should have such a high sense of what is due to their individual and their collective dignity, and that, they should so sincerely value that liberty which we in this country consider the birthright of every man...What was that situation? Briefly it was this—200 British Indians were in gaol, thirty had been ordered to leave the Colony, twenty more had been warned, three were in the Chinese goal, and 13,000 of His Majesty's loyal Indian subjects were prepared to sacrifice everything that men hold valuable in life, their personal prospects and worldly possessions, and to face even exile and actual starvation, rather than sacrifice their individual and communal self-respect and submit to a law which they regarded as humiliating and oppressive.

And an interruption to his flow:

"Some noble Lords opposite (and therefore wicked Liberals) are and have been engaged in loud conversation during my remarks. There is a Standing Order of this House which requires that noble Lords who desire to indulge in private conversation should do so in the Princes Chamber. I am sure that I am voicing the wishes of every speaker in this House when I ask your Lordships to insist on the observance of that Standing Order, which is more honoured in the breach than in the observance. I myself have always carefully refrained from interrupting speakers by any loud or protracted conversation, and I think, therefore, I have some little right, the common right of every Member of this House, to ask that I should be treated in the same way.

Earl Roberts....No one who knows the difficulties which the white men have to contend against in South Africa in earning a livelihood can for a moment doubt that the Transvaal Government is justified in making such laws as may be necessary to prohibit the future immigration of Asiatics into that Colony, and also to arrange for the deportation of those who have obtained admission by fraudulent means....I rejoice that the question of registration has been settled, and that henceforth the finger-print system is not to be enforced in the case of Indians of whose respectability there can be no doubt; and I would earnestly express my hope that, in that class, may be included all natives who have had the honour of wearing the King's uniform, and have served loyally and faithfully in the Indian army. It is true...that finger prints are utilised in India in most branches of public business, but the origin of the finger-print system was the detection of criminals. Its use may since then have come into general practice; but the system has a smack of criminality; and I think we can all readily understand that its application, especially in a foreign land and to only one section of the community, must necessarily be felt as a degradation by any self-respecting Indian.

Lord Curzon - ...Now, let me, if I may, follow the Indian on to the wider field of argument. He claims the full rights of citizenship of the British Empire. I do not think it is for us to blame him for that. We have taught it him. We have inspired him with these ideas. They are the result of our speeches, our writings, our textbooks, which he studies in India, our principles of administration and of education. A feeling has been growing up in India in recent years, and it arises from the value which is attached by the educated Indian to the principles of freedom and equality which he has been taught to regard as the birthright of the British citizen. That is a very valuable, and, in my judgment, a very sacred, feeling. I do not think we ought to say anything or do anything to depreciate or to deride it in the smallest degree; because it is, after all, the only basis upon which you can expect the loyalty of an Asiatic population to an alien rule to be permanently developed or maintained. So much for the Indian point of view, in so far as I know it....I do not believe, from a careful study of the evidence, that the English colonist in South Africa or elsewhere is in the least degree inspired by a feeling of racial superiority or class antagonism. He says to himself: "That which has been won by British money and British blood let the British keep."

Anyway, enough of matters South African, and onto the ever diverting issue of warships:

H.M.S. "Invincible" (Electrical Equipment).

Mr. ASHLEY (Con) asked whether the electrical equipment of the "Invincible" has been in any way defective now or recently; if so, in what manner; and whether any of her guns are now or have been at any time recently out of proper action for that or any other reason?

Mr. McKENNA Certain troubles have arisen in connection with portions of the mechanical gear of the gun mountings, but no defects have recently occurred in the electrical gear of the "Invincible" which have placed her guns out of action. Improvements to overcome these troubles are now being made to her mountings, and while they are being carried out, her guns will temporarily be out of action.

Mr. ASHLEY Can the right hon. Gentleman say why an important ship like this, which has only been in commission five or six months, should be in such a state that her guns are out of action?

Mr. McKENNA No, sir.

I blame dodgy shipbuilders on the Tyne meself. The Invincible was sunk by the Derfflinger at Jutland. Good also that the Colonel was concerned about value for money and so forth.

Anyway, here she is:



For a military man, Ashley (a Lt-Colonel) was being a bit dim here:

Mr. ASHLEY asked whether the right hon. Gentleman would take steps to ensure that in the Home fleet reasonable information as to the future movements of the ships should be published, so that officers and men may be enabled to receive letters from their relatives and friends without undue delay?

Mr. McKENNA It is not considered desirable to publish the movements of His Majesty's ships, as suggested.

Meanwhile, some folk want to legislate about everything:

Mr. BOTTOMLEY (Lib 1) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will favourably consider the introduction into the Shops Bill of a provision dealing with the quality of food supplied to shop assistants and with the system of fines which prevails in most large establishments?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Gladstone) I regret that it would not be possible to deal with questions of fines and of the quality of food in the Shops Bill.

And the issue of defending Bristol:

Mr. ASHLEY asked the Prime Minister, as Chairman of the Committee of Imperial Defence, whether the recommendations of the Committee which sat in 1905 on the question of the defences of Bristol have been carried out?

Mr. HALDANE Yes, Sir.
....
Mr. MacNEILL When does he expect an attack on Bristol? Was not the last attack on Bristol by the right hon. Gentleman the Member for South Dublin, when it was repulsed with slaughter?

Turns out the Member for South Dublin was a Unionist (William Hume Long), but beyond that the joke has gone whoosh, as Haldane sat for a Scottish seat. Turns out that the successor seat is now occupied by a certain plank MSP, until recently not well known south of the border.


(1) Bottomley was a noted fraudster and all round bad egg, but when spotted in prison poised with a needle over a mail sack and asked 'Sewing?' had the wit to reply, 'No, reaping'.

That's what the UN thinks might be happening, and it does not like it at all with Jose Del Prado, Chairman of the working group on the use of mercenaries, putting it thus:

"Since the Working Group’s first report, it had called the Assembly’s attention to the impunity with which the military and private security companies operated, which violated human rights. In zones of armed or post-conflict, the outsourcing of military functions and the supplying of military and security services by transnational companies would lead to the privatization of war. The monopoly on the use of force by the State had been at the basis of national sovereignty for centuries".

As a sidebar, it notes the following, "The visits to various countries had allowed the Working Group to study the emerging manifestations and trends among mercenaries. Those indicated bad working conditions for the mercenaries, including working excess hours, mistreatment and isolation". Erm, I would not have expected a unionised workforce with coffee breaks and so forth, frankly.

Anyway, I would think that full-scale privatisation of warfare would end up with there being rather less of it, and it being a good deal less expensive in terms of life, limb and money, and the experience of the last period of private warfare - 15th century Italy - would seem to bear this out:

"...the rich burghers and merchants of medieval Italy were too busy making money and enjoying life to undertake the hardships and dangers of soldiering themselves. So they adopted the practice of hiring mercenaries to do their fighting for them, and, being thrifty, businesslike folk, they dismissed these mercenaries immediately after their services could be dispensed with. Wars were, therefore, fought by armies hired for each campaign. . . . For the first time, soldiering became a reasonable and comparatively harmless profession. The generals of that period manoeuvred against each other, often with consummate skill, but when one had won the advantage, his opponent generally either retreated or surrendered. It was a recognised rule that a town could only be sacked if it offered resistance. Immunity could always he purchased by paying a ransom.... As one natural consequence, no town ever resisted, it being obvious that a government too weak to defend its citizens had forfeited their allegiance. Civilians had little to fear from the dangers of war which were the concern only of professional soldiers." Veale, quoted by Rothbard in 'The Anatomy of the State'.

First things first, the state of the Serpentine:

SIR JOSEPH PAXTON (Lib, and he of the Crystal Palace) said, he would beg to ask the First Commissioner of Works if it is still his intention to proceed with the Works as proposed by Mr. Hawksley for partially cleansing the water in the Serpentine.

And came the reply:

MR. FITZROY replied, that it was his intention to proceed with the works proposed by Mr. Hawksley, not as stated by his hon. Friend for the purpose of partially cleansing, but of totally and effectually cleansing, the water in the Serpentine. He thought that great misapprehension prevailed upon this subject. Two questions, which were quite independent of one another, had been mixed up in this discussion: the first relating to the mud at the bottom of the river, and the second with respect to the water itself....He believed that if the plan he proposed were successful perfect purity and limpidity would be secured in the water of the Serpentine, and that the mud, having lost its organic power, would no longer evolve any noxious gases, but would cease to be a source of ill-health or annoyance to the inhabitants and frequenters of the neighbourhood. It was therefore with the water of the Serpentine, not with the mud, that he proposed to deal.

Mr Stephenson (Con, and yes, that one):
...He had been in the habit of visiting the place for many years, and had watched closely its want of purification. He had held the office of Commissioner of Sewers, and had devoted his attention a good deal to the means of excluding from the Serpentine the sewage of Bays water, which formerly fell into it to a large extent, and the exclusion of that sewage had undoubtedly, to a proportionate extent, led to the purification of the riverHe had been in the habit of visiting the place for many years, and had watched closely its want of purification. He had held the office of Commissioner of Sewers, and had devoted his attention a good deal to the means of excluding from the Serpentine the sewage of Bays water, which formerly fell into it to a large extent, and the exclusion of that sewage had undoubtedly, to a proportionate extent, led to the purification of the river...He was in the habit of driving past it twice a day, and rode there occasionally for some hours, but he had never found, for the last three or four years, anything so offensive to his olfactory nerves as to lead him to coincide in the outcry that was recently raised. He believed that outcry was entirely unfounded, because, whatever the state of the Serpentine might have been, it was not now, to the best of his judgment, in an offensive condition".

And so on. Two of our greatest engineers in one debate. I doubt that there any engineers in the Commons these days, let alone towering geniuses like those two.

Divorce

MR. VINCENT SCULLY said, that the feelings of the women ought to be consulted in this matter as well as those of the men. He did not believe the Divorce Court was in conformity with the wishes of the women of England, and he thought the House ought to retrace their steps and abolish the system altogether.

Nice of him to speak on their behalf, eh?

The Attorney General said....He regretted to say that the court was a place of resort—according to the accounts that were given to him—of characters of the worst description. Crowds congregated there for the purpose of hearing details which could only give gratification to depraved and diseased minds...One might well imagine a lady of sensitive feelings, and under the distressing necessity of seeking the redress of her grievous wrongs, shrinking from having recourse to a tribunal where she would have to relate the story of her husband's cruelty in the presence of a jeering, laughing, and prurient mob, eager to catch at every indecent particular.

MR. BOWYER said, he was one of those who strongly opposed the Divorce Bill, on the ground that it would be most injurious to the morality of the country. Now, after it had been in operation a short time, the Attorney General was obliged to come forward, in the name of the Government, and propose the introduction of an entirely new principle in the English law, namely, enabling a Judge to shut up his court and proceed secretly. The fact was that the proceedings in the Divorce Court had become so scandalous, and were so injurious to the public morality, that the hon. and learned Gentleman felt bound to introduce this clause

Speeding forward 50 years, dreadnoughts:

Mr. MIDDLEMORE asked how many of the four additional battleships to be laid down on 1st April next were to be built in the Royal Dockyards, and how many by private contractors?

Mr. McKENNA The four ships will be contract built.

Marvellous stuff.

The 1909 equivalent of Rosindell had St Helena in his sights:

Major ANSTRUTHER-GRAY asked whether the present condition of the inhabitants of St. Helena was satisfactory, or whether they were still suffering from the effects of unemployment and stagnation of trade?

Colonel SEELY The situation in St. Helena has not materially altered since I replied to the hon. and gallant Gentleman's inquiry in May last, except that the Governor has now reported that he hopes that it will not be necessary for the Government mill to close down, at any rate until the end of the year, as a large supply of mature leaves has been obtained from a farmer who was not satisfied with the results obtained from his own mill.

Given that a hurricane could have levelled St Helena weeks before without the government knowing, I think Seely was being a bit glib. Wish I knew which were the leaves of which he spoke.

All hail the smokers' friend:

Sir FREDERICK BANBURY asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether, in view of the fact that the usual monthly permission was given last April to remove tobacco from the Victoria Docks after 4 p.m., he will charge duty at the old rate on tobacco which would have been removed in the ordinary course of business after 4 p.m. on 29th April last?

Mr. HOBHOUSE My right hon. Friend regrets that he cannot see his way to accede to the hon. Baronet's request.

And an one:

Mr. MADDISON (Lab) asked the President of the Board of Trade how many pianofortes and reed and pipe organs were manufactured in the United Kingdom in 1907 and 1908, respectively, giving separately those made in London and the provinces. How many...were exported in 1907 and 1908, respectively, giving the countries to which they were sent and the value declared for Customs purposes; how many were imported...how many were re-exported

Mr. TENNANT There are no official records of the number of pianos and reed and pipe organs manufactured in the United Kingdom. These articles are included in the official accounts of imports and exports under the heads of "Pianos" and "Organs and Harmoniums" respectively, and particulars of numbers and values imported and exported under each of these heads are given in the "Annual Statement of the Trade of the United Kingdom." I am sending to the hon. Member a statement giving the fullest available details.

Not sure what I can add to that, so I will not add anything.

Having found a promising debate on Italy, I have since been a bit overwhelmed by the nigh on 54,000 words I have been wading through, but having made a start in finding gems, am reluctant not to post something. This is going to be long and wordy, despite having already excisedmuch of working draft.

As a bit of background, the Kingdom of Sardinia manipulated the Austrians into declaring war on them, whereupon France joined in, ending in defeat for Austria. Austria ceded Lombardy - but not its other Italian province, Venetia - to Sardinia via France. At the time of this debate, France and Austria had signed a ceasefire, but there was the prospect of a grand European congress, Vienna-style, to sort out Italy once and for all. And, if so, whether we should be 'neutral'. As such, it holds up something of a mirror to our own times. Especially on issues of regime change....

The text of the motion:

Motion made, and Question proposed— That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, stating that in the opinion of this House it would be consistent neither with the honour nor the dignity of this Country, which throughout the late negotiations on the Affairs of Italy has preserved a strict and impartial Neutrality between the contending Powers, and used its earnest endeavours to prevent the outbreak of hostilities, to take part in any Conference for the purpose of settling the details of a Peace the preliminaries of which have been arranged between the Emperor of the French and the Emperor of Austria.

Italy in 1859 looked like this:


Blue is the Kingdom of Sardinia, pink the Austrian dominions, orange the Papal states and green the Kingdom of Naples.

Anyway, onwards:

Lord Elcho (Lib):

"...There was no Englishman who did not sympathize with Italy in her past sufferings and sorrows and her hopes for the future. Viscount Palmerston..apparently looked upon Austria as the cause of every evil and of every insurrection which occurred in every part of the world.




The principle of armed intervention in favour of suffering nationalities was, in short, one against which we ought to protest, inasmuch as if any one nation were to arrogate to herself the position of acting upon the doctrine that might was right, there would be an end to the public law of Europe, and we should be returning to the old days of the German faustrecht.

He believed that the true policy of this country was the policy of non-intervention...only to intervene in the affairs of other nations when the interests or treaties which bound this country compelled. That was the policy which was advocated by the late Sir Robert Peel with his latest breath...Sir Robert Peel said:— Which is the wisest policy—to attempt to interfere with the institutions and measures of other countries not bordering upon our own, out of an abstract love for constitutional government—or to hold that doctrine maintained by Mr. Fox, Mr. Pitt, Lord Grenville, Mr. Canning, and Lord Castlereagh, that the true policy of this country is non-intervention in the affairs of others?"...Mr. Cobden said:— I say if you want to benefit nations struggling for their freedom, establish as one of the maxims of international law the principle of non-intervention."

....



He would go further, and would say that he believed, perhaps, the best thing that could happen for the security of the world and the good of this country was that a united kingdom of Italy should be created, consisting of 25,000,000 people. [Mr. GLADSTONE: Hear, hear!] A right hon. Friend of his cheered that sentiment, but did any man believe that such a thing was possible? Was there anything in the circumstances of Italy that rendered it probable? It was a fairy vision and an agreeable dream, of the realization of which he saw no prospect.


what is for the good of England? He believed it was for the advantage of this country that we should abstain as far as possible from any intervention in the affairs of foreign nations.



Mr Kinglake (Lib): "...It might as well be said that a policeman who witnessed an outrage should be required to observe a strict impartiality between the person committing the outrage and the person who was its object"
...
English statesmen, as far as he had observed, had not distinguished themselves in the Congresses of Europe. Those Congresses seemed to have been fatal to the reputations of our public men....He did not look back with pride or satisfaction to the Congress of Paris in 1856.
....
The Emperor Napoleon was not a mere titular sovereign; he was a great commander of men. If they lived 100 years hence instead of to-day, they would be looking back upon the history of 1859 with the deepest interest. They cannot but think and talk of the Emperor of the French.



Gladstone: "England has an immense interest in the maintenance of the European equilibrium, and that which disorganizes any one of the great countries of Europe is necessarily menacing to the general peace and to the interests of England. It is our duty and interest to desire to see Austria strong, flourishing, and happy.....for forty-five long years, wherever liberty reared its head in Italy, wherever there was the slightest or most moderate attempt to procure even the hundredth part of those franchises which as Englishmen we hold so dear, there the iron hand of Austria has interposed, and has re-established in all their rigour the abuses of the actually existing Governments...



Is it possible the noble Lord can think that at this moment England is prepared to record its unconditional determination not to meddle with the affairs of Italy in this crisis of her fortunes? For that, after all, is the meaning of this Motion. In this country we are much disposed to look at precedents, and to walk in the way of those who have gone before us, and to have good reasons shown before we depart from it. Has this country been accustomed in former times to make the affairs of Italy foreign to its intervention and sympathy? Is not all our history full of proofs to the contrary? Hardly a serious question has ever been raised in Italy in which England has not interfered;
...
I am, nevertheless, extremely sorry to learn that the English nation, which has been so lavishly endowed and gifted in other respects by Providence, cannot furnish a man capable of holding his own at a Congress or a Conference with the representatives of the other Powers of Europe...


my hon. and learned Friend assures us that the whole mass of the people under the rule of the Pope, with the exception of a few uneasy country agitators, are deeply devoted to his paternal authority, and when one bears in mind at the same time that...henever the foreign force which is maintained there disappears from the Estates of the Church, the throne of the Pope disappears along with it...


I, however, lament, as cordially as I could lament if I had the nearest interest in all that concern him, when I see a Sovereign who makes pretensions to represent in a peculiar sense the majesty of Heaven reduced to become a mendicant at foreign Courts—a mendicant, too, not for the purpose merely of obtaining the means of subsistence, but with the object of procuring military armaments whereby to carry the ravages of fire and sword over the fair provinces which he governs, and to rivet on the necks of men a yoke that is detested by every one except those who have a direct personal interest in its continuance.



Given the complte lack of interest in this one, I do not suppose I will bother adding in Dizzy and Pam unless there is a tsunami of begging in the next few hours.

Starting with 1909.

What about this for the quality of mercy?:

"Mr. J. PARKER (Lab) (on behalf of Mr. William Thorne)asked the President of the Local Government Board whether his attention has been called to the case of a man summoned at the West Ham Police Court for the cost of food supplied to his children by the West Ham Children's Care Committee, whose fine was paid by the magistrate because he had no money; and if he intends taking action in the matter?

Mr. BURNS My attention has not been called to this case. If my hon. Friend will give me particulars with regard to it I will make inquiry on the subject".

Can't see that happening these days....

Dabbling in Persia's gore, to adapt Byron:

Mr Lynch asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether the ex-Shah of Persia is still at the Russian Legation in Tehran under the protection of the British and Russian flags; and, in view of the menace to public peace involved by his continued presence in the country, what steps are being taken to conduct him to the frontier without further delay?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD Arrangements are in contemplation to conduct the Shah to the frontier, under escort, with the least possible delay; but before they can be actually carried out certain questions must be settled with regard to his future place of residence, the amount of the pension which he is to receive, and the transfer to his successor of the crown jewels.

Mr. LYNCH Has any objection been made by the Persian Government to the removal or departure of the ex-Shah, or has such an objection been made by the two Legations?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD No objection has been made, either by the Persian Government or by the two Legations. The delay is caused by the questions of the pension and of the Crown jewels.

Plus ça change... Arguable that we treated that Shah - Mohammad Ali Shah Qajar - rather better than Reza Pahlavi.

Not so perfidious Germania:

Mr. CULLINAN (for Mr. Dillon) asked the Secretary of State for Foreign Affairs whether he still accepted as made in good faith the declaration of the German Government that Germany will not accelerate her naval programme, and will not have 13 ships of the "Dreadnought" type, including cruisers, till the end of 1912; and whether before last Monday any information had reached the British Government tending to cause them to believe that any change had taken place in the intentions of the German Government?

Mr. McKINNON WOOD The answer to the first part of the question is in the affirmative, and to the second part in the negative.

They didn't make it to 13 until 1913...


Not getting one's facts right:

Sir THOMAS BRAMSDON asked the First Lord of the Admiralty whether he was aware that the petrol tanks of the A division of submarines are so worn out as to need constant repairs; would he say whether this is not a source of danger in the employment of those boats, and whether he would call for a report on the matter and, if necessary, direct that new tanks should be supplied to this class of submarine?

The FIRST LORD of the ADMIRALTY (Mr. McKenna) Reports have been obtained and show that the petrol tanks of 1695 the A Class of submarines are in good condition. They are not a source of danger in the employment of the boats and do not require renewal.

Sir T. BRAMSDON Is it true that these petrol tanks are needing constant repair?

Mr. McKENNA No; I wired for reports immediately on seeing the question, and this is the reply I have had—"The petrol tanks are in good condition."

Further naval matters:

Mr. REES asked whether any, and, if so, how many, battleships and first-class cruisers are stationed on the East India and China stations?

Mr. McKENNA Four first-class cruisers on the China station.
....
Sir GILBERT PARKER Is the absence of first-class battleships from the China and East India stations due to the fact that under our alliance with Japan we leave to her the responsibility of defending our interests there?

Mr. McKENNA I think these questions of high policy had better not be discussed by question and answer.

McKenna's final response is rather better than the 'national security' boilerplate taext of our time.

And what about this for being on top of one's brief?:

Mr. HUNT asked the Lord Advocate whether he is aware that the parish council of Sleat, Isle of Skye, has lately passed a unanimous resolution that the stallions and bulls lately supplied by the Congested Districts Board have been of very poor quality, much to the detriment of the stock in the island; and will he inquire into the 1698 matter and have better animals supplied in future years?

The LORD ADVOCATE (Mr. Ure) I am aware that the parish council of Sleat have represented recently to the Congested Districts Board that there is a falling off in the quality of the bulls and stallions sent by the Board to the parish...

Crikey.

An early outbreak of 'Vote Blue, go Green', and Liberals having none of it. Cameron and CCHQ take note:

"Mr. FELL (Con) asked if there is any advantage gained by keeping Westminster Hall lighted up and patrolled during the whole of an all-night sitting; and if arrangements can be made to close it at midnight, seeing that it is practically not used at all after that hour?"

"The FIRST COMMISSIONER of WORKS (Mr. Lewis Harcourt)It would not be desirable to leave Westminster Hall in darkness so long as the public have a passage through the upper portion of it to the central lobby".

I suspect this was more to do with saving money than the planet, but no matter.

Hurrah - up to a point - for Gladstone Jr:

Mr. CHARLES ROBERTS (Lib) asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if it is intended to introduce the measure amending the law in regard to inebriates promised in the King's Speech?

The SECRETARY of STATE for the HOME DEPARTMENT (Mr. Gladstone) I fear there is now no possibility of carrying legislation on this subject during the present Session, and I do not think that in these circumstances it is desirable to introduce the Bill.

Mr. CHARLES ROBERTS Can the right hon. Gentleman state whether a Bill will be introduced next Session?

Mr. GLADSTONE I am open to argument, but I think the balance of probability is against that view.

I cannot discover whether Roberts was a temperance fanatic, but he was the son of a preacher man.

I may have unearthed a horror unleashed by us on our Hibernian neighbours - The Tuberculosis Act (Ireland) 1909:

Captain CRAIG asked the Chief Secretary for Ireland whether he can state the numbers of local authorities which have put in force The Tuberculosis (Ireland) Act, 1908?


Mr. CHERRY As has already been pointed out to the hon. Member in reply to the question asked by him on 9th July, Part 1 of the Act alone requires the formality of adoption. Three sanitary authorities have up to the present 1558 passed the necessary resolutions subject to the approval of the county council in each case. A number of the sanitary authorities have availed themselves of the various powers contained in Part III. of the Act.

Facetiousness aside, I prefer the terms consumption, especially when it allows the use of 'consumptive'.

An outrage crying out for a dose of corrective dharma?

Mr. ALDEN (Lib) asked why the Buddhist registrar has been removed from the hall of the Buddhist Theosophical Society in Colombo, although that society has had the benefit of his presence since the office was created in 1888, thus depriving the representative of the Buddhist community, which supports three colleges and over 250 schools, of the privilege of marriage in their own hall, although all Christian sects are granted this privilege?

The UNDER-SECRETARY for the COLONIES (Colonel Seely) My hon. Friend is mistaken in supposing that the Buddhist Theosophical Society represents the whole of the Buddhist community of Ceylon. The number of members of the society in Ceylon is only 132. It is not the only Buddhist society in the island, and the great mass of Buddhists belong to no 1554 society. The Government has required the removal of the registrar's office from the hall of this society because its presence there tended to identify the registrar too closely with this particular society.

Further troubles in Ulster:

MR Devlin"...whether he is aware that on the 11th July a procession of Orangemen, wearing regalia, marched under police protection through an almost exclusively Catholic portion of Portadown to and from a church in the neighbourhood, although the ordinary and direct road to and from the church is much shorter; whether he is aware that on the 13th July Orange drumming parties were allowed to parade through the Catholic district in a provoking manner, cursing the Pope and playing party tunes..."

Mr Cherry "...It appears that one band played a party tune, but the police did not hear anyone curse the Pope".

Captain CRAIG Is the right hon. and learned Gentleman aware that Portadown is a most peaceful neighbourhood, and that the people live in peace and harmony all the year round?

Mr. CHERRY That is the general rule I believe. Portadown is very peaceful, but there are two occasions, 12th July and 15th August, which are usually exceptions.

Mr. CONOR O'KELLY Does the right hon. and learned Gentleman deny that the Union Jack is a party emblem?

Mr. CHERRY I cannot see how the Union Jack can be considered a party emblem, though it may possibly be turned into a party emblem.

Quite possible, I would think.

Naval and military aeronautics:

"That a sum not exceeding £36,464, including a supplementary sum of £6,500,. be granted to His Majesty to complete the sum necessary to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st clay of March, 1910, for sundry grants in aid of scientific investigation".

The SECRETARY of STATE for WAR (Mr. Haldane)

"...Great strides are being made, in the preparation of machines, but it is not enough to make machines that will fly, whether dirigibles or aeroplanes. They must be machines which can be made available for the purposes of war, and the difficulties which surround us are still so great that progress can only be made after exact and careful study and by the adaptation of inventions as they are brought forward to the peculiar conditions which must be fulfilled if effectiveness in war is to be secured...The remarkable events of the last few days—M. Blériot crossing the Channel, and other things that have been accomplished in the United States, and elsewhere—all point to this, that at some time hereafter the aeroplane will be an instrument which will be capable of effecting in all probability great results...Flying machines, whatever forms they take, are very simple machines, and you cannot keep secret very long any advance that has been made in their construction....in this country we have not made the amount of initial progress that has been made in Germany, France and, perhaps, in the-United States. But I reflect that much the same thing was true of submarines. To-day, by our scientific procedure and by the work that has been done in the Admiralty, we stand, it is no exaggeration to say, at the head of the world as regards submarines. Then again, in motor cars also we were behind. I am no expert in motor cars, but I know enough to have a strong impression that if we are not up to the best Continental countries in every way, we are getting very near it in the construction of motor cars....

Out of context quote of the day:

The "Daily Mail," working in conjunction with the Parliamentary Committee, have made the generous offer of a shed. The War Office has provided, with the assistance of the London County Council, a site at Wormwood Scrubbs, and the shed is in the course of rapid construction.

(In actual fact an airship hanger)

Back at the plot:

"There never will be, as far as I can see, any very large private ownership of these machines. No doubt, country gentlemen will hereafter have these aeroplanes, and have pleasant aeroplane parties and weekends; but when you come to dirigibles, rigid and unrigid, I fancy very few people will possess dirigibles.

Arthur Lee (Not the one who gave us 'Forever Changes') I believe this is absolutely the first occasion upon which it has ever been debated in the history of Parliament. I hope, therefore, that Members of this House will forgive those of us who have not a very wide and deep experience on the subject. I am reminded of a remark which was made by the present Lord Chamberlain some years back when he announced to an electrified House that he was not an agricultural labourer, and I feel bound to admit on this occasion that I am not a practical aeronautist....meanwhile, while these investigations are being carried on, men are actually flying about in other countries, and Frenchmen are landing like migratory birds upon our shores...Whilst the Admiralty are concentrating, the War Office, according to the right hon. Gentleman, are experimenting, and they have begun by ordering a gas bag".

Making oneself a hostage to fortune:

Mr. ARTHUR LEE I said these machines might be used for transport in a limited sense, but they could not be used for transport of large bodies or of stores for the purpose of invading this country.

Sir GILBERT PARKER Ordinary commonsense tells us that such machines will probably never be used for the carrying of large bodies of troops and ammunition.

And some slightly off-topic input from my new hero:

And another hostage to fortune:

Mr Mond (Lib) I do not think that nations in the future are going to conduct their battles by scattering explosives over houses. That is very unlikely to take place. It would be the very reversal of the rules of war which have now existed for a long time. Nobody expects an enemy to bombard a seaside place like Brighton. With civilised nations warfare is not conducted by simply destroying property and killing civilians, or by dropping dynamite about London, Paris, or Berlin.

The first casualty of such was an English child killed in a Zeppelin raid, apparently.

In part because the 1909 sitting for today is exceptionally dull, and in part because a request for 1859 was made yesterday.

Odd things afoot in Hyde Park:

"MR. W. EWART said, he wished to ask the First Commissioner of Works whether there is any prospect that the large space near the middle of Hyde Park recently enclosed with iron railings, so as to exclude the public, would be restored for the use and recreation of the public.

MR. FITZROY said, he was afraid he could give no more satisfactory answer to the question now than he gave when it was put to him on a former occasion. Some two years ago great objection was made to giving the cows in the park unrestricted liberty of roaming over the ground, and the cows were consequently removed to an enclosure, and sheep were substituted in their place. The alteration was made to meet the convenience of the public; and if the public wished to again give the cows the range of the whole park, instead of confining them to their present restricted area, he thought the old system must be reverted to".

A reasonable enough answer. I suppose the park counted as common land, hence the outbreak of grazing. Wonder where the cow sheds, milking parlours were? Probably not in Knightsbridge.

Italy - what to do....

MR. SCULLY said, he would beg to ask the First Lord of the Treasury whether the Sovereign of the Roman States has finally accepted or declined the position of President over the Confederate States of Italy; and whether, in the event of the Sovereign Pontiff accepting that office, it is intended on the part of Her Majesty's Government to adopt effectual steps for establishing direct diplomatic relations with the Court of Rome?

VISCOUNT PALMERSTON said, that, as he would not be able to speak twice on the Motion before the Chair, he would delay his answer.

Oh aye. Not avoiding the question at all then. As a bit of background, the unification of Italy was not complete at the time, and the French had just fought the Hapsburg Empire in alliance with Savoy. And won... Taking some chunks of Italy as a pourboire.

Honesty the best policy?

Precious of the current lot would be that up front....

The national defences:

"Mr Horsman - The question of the national defences had only to be mentioned in that House to excite a feeling of general interest, and he believed the feeling of that House on the subject was a very inadequate representation of that which prevailed throughout the country. They had just been called on by the Government to make a large increase in the taxes of the year, and the reason on which that demand was grounded was the necessity of adding to our national defences. This year our armaments would cost us £26,000,000, and in order to meet that enormous outlay we should have to submit to an augmentation of the most odious and exceptional of all our imposts. In a time of profound peace we were about to nearly double the income tax, and there was a general disposition throughout the country to inquire whence the great exigency arose"
...
All those armaments and that taxation were necessitated by one cause—namely, the fear of an attack from France—why should they not say it? France knew it, and said it—and all Europe knew it, and said it—and no one differed about it in that House, except perhaps the Member for Birmingham, who disputed the necessity, and the Ministers of the Crown, with whom it would be a breach of etiquette to confess the motive.
...
Every one knew that if in any future wax-that might occur a French general were to laud in England, he would bring with him every soldier for whom transport could he found. It would be for invaders and invaded a life and death struggle. That army would leave its own ports an exultant and, by anticipation, a victorious army. From the moment it landed on the shores of England it would have to fight its way with the desperation of a forlorn hope, and within two or three weeks of the landing of the first Zouave either it would be completely annihilated or London would be taken. It would he less a war than a surprise, and its suddenness would be one element in the calculation of its success.
...
The Member for Birmingham, for instance, as an independent Member of that House, and acting on his individual responsibility, expressed fearlessly what he held consistently, and he had a perfect right to believe that there was not a Zouave in the French army who would not prefer a remission of the wine duties to the sack of London"

Horsman died in Biarritz, by the way.

And over in the Lords

The Liturgy of the Church of England:

"LORD EBURY presented a Petition from the clergy of the Church of England, for a Revision of the Liturgy of the Church of England. His Lordship said that the petitioners prayed the House to address the Queen to appoint a Commission to revise the Liturgy, a subject which he maintained was regarded by all the thinking portion of the national Church as of paramount importance; and he fancied their Lordships would he disposed to attach greater weight to the petition from the fact that it was signed, not by the laity, but by upwards of 500 clergymen of the Church of England".

....

THE BISHOP OF LONDON said, he was sure there was no man less inclined to mislead their Lordships on this question than his noble Friend (Lord Ebury), nor was there any man who had more at heart the best interests of the Church of England. But their Lordships had been led to believe that what the noble Lord desired was simply to shorten the services of the Church...He was ready to admit that this was an object which a great body of the laity, both enlightened and unenlightened, desired; but he did not think that the right way to shorten the services was to take the course which the petitioners desired.

....

VISCOUNT DUNGANNON concurred in all that had fallen from the noble Earl, and expressed his astonishment that any objection should be raised to our most beautiful and impressive Burial service.

LORD BROUGHAM said, he thought that House a most unfit assembly to discuss questions of a theological character. No doubt there were many parts of the Liturgy which might be amended, or at least shortened; but matters of this kind were better left in the hands of the right rev. Bench....it was related by Dr. Paley that he was once at St. George's Chapel, Windsor, when that Creed was read in the presence of George III. When it was commenced His Majesty did not make the usual responses, and the clergyman, thinking this was from inadvertence, began again, whereupon the King shut his book, and, as Dr. Paley said, "left him to go on with his 'Whosoever,' by himself." George III., therefore, as well as Dr. Paley—one of the most useful champions of the Church—did not look upon this Creed as fit to be retained—he meant in respect of the condemnatory words".