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Ruth Turner - shame on you

No-one else seems to have noticed, so I will take up the cudgels:

"I have been completely open with the police throughout and will continue to cooperate with them fully. I absolutely refute any allegations of wrongdoing of any nature whatsoever".

Now Ms Turner studied English and History at Salford University, so she has less of an excuse than most for her hideous misuse of the present tense of 'refute' while offering no proof as to the falseness of any of the allegations. I suppose she thought that 'deny' was too feeble a word, and perhaps the meaning of 'refute' has become debased, but nevertheless, not good. I would have accepted 'I will refute'. The Grauniad also disgraces itself by using 'Ruth Turner refutes any wrongdoing 'absolutely' ‘as a sub-headline. Given the foregoing, why no inverted commas? It is not a statement of fact, is it?

Anyway, for the record:

Refute - –verb (used with object), -fut·ed, -fut·ing.

1 - To prove to be false or erroneous, as an opinion or charge.

2 - To prove (a person) to be in error.

Having embarked on a little light pedantry, doubtless I will find myself hoist by my own petard before the morning is out. The clock is ticking..

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Anonymous Praguetory said... 11:13 am

(Ahem) Salford University you say? You are quite correct of course.  



Blogger Croydonian said... 11:33 am

Two Bs and a D and you are in, by the look of things.  



Anonymous nick drew said... 11:51 am

Let's be gallant here. Perhaps, like Dr Johnson, she stamped her little foot and cried

"I refute it thus!"

The again, maybe she used another form of international sign-language, eg the finger... (to point at a photo of the True Culprit, for example)

Body-language can be so expressive  



Blogger Croydonian said... 11:53 am

Did she kick a rock while doing so?  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 11:57 am

aww bless, they woke her up very early. Perhaps se was tired...  



Anonymous Praguetory said... 11:57 am

Before her career in politics, her USP was fund-raising - handy isn't it? And it's not as if this is the first time. Of course, after that episode she did a Tessa and abandoned her personal life to spend more time with her career.  



Blogger Croydonian said... 12:11 pm

And from the horse's mouth: "I hadn’t really any intention of joining the Labour Party, I just fell in with the wrong crowd”.

The interview linked has a few other little nail bombs hidden it: "as she orders her first drink of the afternoon, a carbonated – not fizzy, sparkling or bubbly water. Take note of the proper terminology – let’s start as we mean to go on".

"Ruth Turner is a woman to watch but is also difficult to categorise. In 32 years Ruth Turner has achieved more than some do in a lifetime".

"I’m under no illusions about how disappointing and frustrating a political organisation can be – it drives me mad sometimes. And I can’t stand the petty personal politics – some of it is just nasty. But there is no point in getting angry and passionate about the world if you’re not prepared to get your hands dirty."

Still, in that photograph, she is quite easy on the eye.  



Anonymous lilith said... 12:27 pm

I suspect that being "easy on the eye" has helped disguise her ruthlessness (no pun intended). She looks so WHOLESOME! Don't forget Terminator 3....  



Blogger Croydonian said... 12:31 pm

There was some research done some years back as to how folk fare in the criminal justice system, with the better looking faring better at sentencing etc than those with faces that strip paint at 20 paces except in cases involving fraud, breach of trust etc.  



Anonymous nick drew said... 12:42 pm

seriously, I think the highly coordinated TeamTony response to Ruthie's predicament is quite revealing. They have been fantastically supportive of her, to the point of completely OTT, more than just the usual guff.

She & everyone else will have watched The Trial of TB which drew attention to just how vulnerable Blairites will be when the baton changes hands. She will be feeling potentially very exposed.

The Blair camp is acting as though it is Very Keen Indeed to let her know she isn't going to be hung out to dry.

Which tends to confirm (if there was ever the slightest doubt) that she is a pivotal pawn.

Hope Yatesy has access to some good interrogational psychology.  



Anonymous verity said... 2:52 pm

I think Yatesy is doing a bang up job and when all this is over and Blair and the slithy toves have been placed in secure accommodation, he should get a knighthood (that he doesn't have to pay for).  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 2:54 pm

Can anyone tell me what is theatrical about someone being arrested at 6.30 in the morning?  



Blogger Croydonian said... 4:09 pm

I have mixed feelings about 'dawn' raids. I felt that the swoop on one of the Maxwell brothers with the press pack in attendance was one of the most disgraceful policing episodes I have ever witnessed, and while I do not feel that political figures should be extended privileges not available to civilians, equally well they should be treated no worse.

However, the imp on my other shoulder is enjoying it no end.  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 5:42 pm

She was pivotal in the kithchen cabinet and as such would be in a position to hang The Lying Scotsman out to dry. The finacing of the Labout pary is astonishing , collosal amounts emanting from a few sources.Faster than a speeding racing car my suspicious mind begins to wonder if they might want something in return.

Access at least and probably a lot more .There is quite obvously something rotten in the state of NuLab and the boil must be lanced.
I wonder what she mught spill if you slappped her around a bit ?

I mean what are the police coming to if she can`t have a nasty fall with internal bruising ?  



Blogger Croydonian said... 6:07 pm

There are times when I wish we had a more formalised system of pleas baragaining in this jurisdiction....  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 6:15 pm

What about a Take the piss and tell story. Did I not happen to see Julia Langdon doddering through a unspekably dull collection of platitudes on Doughty Street.In fact her article about Lab funding is a spicy meatball my friend. The Indian steel tycoon Mittall has given nearly £4,500,000 to the Labour party. I am not a conspiracy theorist , but that sort of money canot exchange hands without a little nudging of the fruit machine.

Look at the outrage that BAE greased a few already greasy arab palms to get a £40 bio. contract. Well I should bloody well hope so.
Look at the days of Tory sleaze , a couple of hotel bills and cash for questions . This is far far worse.

Its a joke .( says Julia Langdon) and i think she can be trusted.

I laugh a bitter broken laugh HA ha ha ..  



Blogger Croydonian said... 6:19 pm

On the same programme the Dizzmeister managed to provoke a sniff from Michael White, which was quite amusing.

Re Mittal, recall the tale of Blair referring to Mittal Steel as a British business when lobbying the Romanians? Mittal Steel UK is little more than a nameplate, and certainly is not based here.  



Anonymous verity said... 7:11 pm

Re the dawn raid, someone over on Guido's who seems to be familiar with police strategies, said this is done to disorient the arrestee. Having the police come to your door and take you away at 6:30 in the morning is very destabilising and causes the person to feel weak and helpless, and this is intentional.

And apart from the effect on Turner, don't you know this 6:30 a.m. arrest caused Tony Blair's stomach to lurch?

I think the empty house of cards of NuLabour .is collapsing  



Anonymous nick drew said... 7:24 pm

"destabilising and causes the person to feel weak and helpless, and this is intentional"

yep, it's called "exploiting the shock of capture"

effect lasts up to a couple of hours; longer if combined with other techniques  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 7:30 pm

I think the empty house of cards of NuLabour .is collapsing

Oh I do hope so V.I do not myself get desperately excited about the possibility of corruption at a certain level. The fiasco of the Standards Board shows the amount of undergarment twisting that an effort to entirely stop it leads to.
Having said that these allegations with realted funding issues are black as pitch .New Lab made such a big thing of the minor indiscretions of one or two islolated Tory MP`s that top down bribe taking by them is nauseatingly ..um predictable.

If you want to know what is really worrying them though read the speeches in the mirror so to speak. The break up of the Union will be the end of the Labour Party.Brown is sweating at every pore.I smell his fear .

BTW is you painted Mugabe white and put him on a diet wouldn`t he look like Broon .....  



Anonymous verity said... 7:32 pm

"Exploiting the shock of capture" -interesting, Nick Drew.

What "other techniques" do you refer to?  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 9:18 pm

The media control attempt of Labour today to question the police is a desperate act indeed.

Sending in Blunkett = Lord Cardigan....  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 9:18 pm

The media control attempt of Labour today to question the police is a desperate act indeed.

Sending in Blunkett = Lord Cardigan....  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 9:19 pm

I wouldn’t ask Drew about interrogation techniques Verity. His own ,include reciting self penned verse for sometimes minutes at a stretch . Its too upsetting , subjects frequently begged for judiciously located electric shocks by way of relief.

There is line to be drawn and ND has frequently crossed it  



Anonymous verity said... 9:47 pm

I want to know what other psychological techniques the police use. Certainly, this dawn arrest has upset - why? - quite a large number of people on the internet. They seem to feel it wasn't "fair" somehow.

Perversion of the course of justice is a very grave charge. I'm sure she will have welcomed the opportunity to clear her good name.  



Anonymous nick drew said... 10:18 pm

I decline the opportunity to bandy words with a man who doesn't know the meaning of 'elide' (see top thread-of-the-moment). My peerless doggerel and recitations of Nietzsche have a dedicated following, no cattle-prods involved.

Verity - nothing lurid: simple things like isolation from news (and the outside world in general); being relocated without explanation; creating the impression that the subject is only a small part of the bigger picture and that the rest of the picture is unfolding satisfactorily without them; that no-one knows or cares about their fate. No cattle-prods involved.

This is among the reasons why (see earlier in the thread) TeamBlair have love-bombed her so energetically. But who knows what she coughed in the first 2 hours??  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 10:19 pm

Pedant mode.

Errm. Surely she cannot 'refute an allegation'? Once made, the allegation, even if incorrect, exists and is a fact. To deny it's existence is just silly.

She can 'refute any wrongdoing' - but she needs to present evidence to do so. As you say, a mere assertion does not suffice.

OK, mu turn to be hoist :)

Bodo.  



Anonymous verity said... 10:53 pm

Nick Drew - No, no! I wasn't entertaining the thought of cattle prods! It was the psychological techniques I was interested in. Thank you.

Moving people without an explanation must be very destabilising to someone who's already in custody and helpless to complain.

I hope when they get Tony, they seize him at 6:30 a.m. to exploit the shock of capture. Then, after two days, wake him up at 3 a.m. and move him without explanation. This is a good one. And then lead him to believe he's part of a bigger picture ... Levy, Turner, all those people who know where bodies are buried, all those false lords, Berlusconi, Tessa Jowell's husband, John Prescott and Anschutz and who knows who else. He will know, though, and be sick with worry.

I love it!!  



Anonymous David Allen said... 10:56 pm

I can see that dawn raids have their shock value _ and might cause the suspect to blurt out something they wouldn't after a couple of espresos and half a packet of Bensons _ but distate at the tactic in Britain these days is quite understandable. FOUR coppers to arrest a slip of a girl at 6.30am? _ when plod can't usually be bothered to send even ONE of their finest around after a burglary? This is just showmanship from a politicised Met who can scent blood in the water. An elderly lady I know died of a heart attack a couple of years ago whilst still waiting 4 hours after rather violent burglary for a single policeman to turn up.... to say nothing of the 12 officers they can find to escort Prince William's intended home after a night's clubbing...  



Anonymous verity said... 12:09 am

I take your point, David Allen, and I too think the English police are dire. To think we were the first country in the world to have a police force and it's come to this! They don't turn up for robberies with violence and Tony has forbidden you to have a gun.

On the other hand, I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth in this instance. A dawn visit of four coppers to arrest "a slip of a girl" (who may be guilty of attempting to pervert the course of justice and may know where many bodies are buried who have subverted the government of Britain over the last 10 years) was practical for the purpose. Destabilising.

Given that Tony Blair had to have a doctor visit to release trapped wind in his intestines the night before Michael Howard took over as Tory leader, such were his nerves ... it might require a team of skilled Polish plumbers with medical degrees to keep Blair comfortable just now. Tee hee.  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 12:36 am

Dear dear such light heartedness when the very tap root of our Constitution is poisoned. Its time to put political point scoring to one side and soberly contemplate the grave seriousness of the allegations hovering over Blair . I am saddened to learn that further revelations of most depressing sort are imminently to be disclosed. I cannot delight in the ignominious end of T Blair nor the sight of Broon not waving , but drowning , in allegations of sleaze before his premiership has even begun.
I well remember the statesmanlike reasonableness labour showed in the face of relatively trifling corruptions ……….

Our condolences must be offered with sincerity and sorrow……..mmmmmmmph …(stomach cramping)


I was interrogated as a juvenile once Verity and the main tactic was to suggest hideous consequences lay down the road of denial and , crucially , that one`s co conspirators had thrown you to the wolves. If I were the police I would want a couple of hours before she knew that she was not alone.

Seems an entirely reasonbale approach.


Oh and Nick I have refuted your "elide" slur to my own satisfaction....sort of  



Anonymous Praguetory said... 7:53 am

Those who express concern about police conduct in this case are missing the wider picture. If thus precipitates a change in government policing priorities can be transformed. Currently there is one civi worker for every uniformed officer, an arrest takes a shift to process and the police activities are determined by Home Office edicts and targets which seem to be framed around reducing the fear of crime rather than arresting wrong uns. See Copper's Blog or book for more  



Anonymous Praguetory said... 7:54 am

Sorry should have read every 2 uniformed officer.  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 10:28 am

P I think we are probably all aware of the prblems with the policing . David Copperfield has been quote extensively in the press and i have a contact in the Complaints office ...well its big subject

Don`t see the connection  



Blogger Croydonian said... 12:40 pm

Interesting stuff Nick.

Re Policing, I do not blame the plods and plodettes at the sharp end, I blame their increasingly politicised bosses. Have I ever suggested that elected sheriffs might be a good idea...?  



Anonymous verity said... 1:25 pm

David Cameron should promise this. People feel despair because the people in control are not on their side. If they were the boss of the police chief or the sheriff, there would be much more confidence in the the law. You know it makes sense. Too much sense for Blair and the slithy toves.  



Blogger Croydonian said... 1:34 pm

Absolutely. I cannot find any mention of it at Conservative Home where Tim M has been canvassing for new policy ideas. If I can crank the muse into action, I will do a proper post on the idea and have a go at submitting it there once we've chewed over it here and I've had a chance to re-work it in the light of comments. In the meanwhile, bear with me.  



Anonymous David Cullen said... 6:23 pm

So if she's not guilty of 'any wrongdoing of any nature whatsoever' - then she has never done anything wrong? This woman is something special - I'm calling for her to be immediately considered for sainthood. All those in favour - sign my petition here

www.InMyHumbleEtc.co.uk  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 6:26 pm

C
have you ever visited Salford?  



Blogger Croydonian said... 6:36 pm

PH - I don't believe so, although I might have passed through it while in the Manchester area.  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 7:33 pm

a sound decision c
very sound  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 7:38 pm

just to give you some idea of how desirable a place salford is, injuring a few of the local folk.
The reaction?
some of the locals took out their own pistols and chased the attackers outside and executed one of them in the pub car park.
Its a wild place, like moss side only white and with even more firearms.  



Anonymous Anonymous said... 7:40 pm

ignore the above

just to give you some idea of how desirable a place salford is, a few months ago two thugs shot up a salford pub injuring a few of the local folk.
The reaction?
some of the locals took out their own pistols and chased the attackers outside and executed one of them in the pub car park.
Its a wild place, like moss side only white and with even more firearms.  



Blogger Croydonian said... 7:41 pm

Maybe the place actually deserves Hazell Bleurghs as an MP. Which is pretty damning.  



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