A right wing demonstration? That doesn't happen very often.
But it has in Italy. Le Monde notes that "hundreds of thousands of protesters" answered Berlusconi's call for a demo against Prodi's government, with banners demanding 'More liberty', and 'lower taxes'. I do not suppose the protests will have a direct impact on Prodi, but doubtless the protesters felt better about themselves.
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Mr Croyden
As usual there are plots afoot in in the land of the Medicis
Tis said that prodi is Putins man.
croydon!!!!!!!!!!!!
Why do I keep mispelling the place?
Ph - it happens all the time. There are circus posters in these parts with 'den' rather than 'don'.
Meanwhile, the Italians are damned good at plotting, and those Medicis were an interesting lot.
I am quite confident that Prodi is impervious to the notion of extending liberty and decreasing taxes.
IT - Alas and alack. While doing a quick search on Prodi I discovered that the Italian defence minister is a member of the Daisy party. Oy vey.
as croyodonian said.. the italians are excellent at plotting.. afterall was not machiavelli an italian?
He most certainly was. 'The Prince' is a thoroughly good read, and I return to it every couple of years.
Tejus,
"machiavelli an italian"
He was, indeed. But he more described and analysed what he observed and read than was he able to use it himself. The fact that he died as a poor man sugggests that his own plotting wasn't too successful.
BTW, a thought is bugging my mind, i.e. what situationalists, utilitarianists, epicurianists or Ayn Rand might have thought about plotting. Maybe you can enlightn me.
Peter,
Since several weeks, I am missing your lucid comments, especially on Cranmer's blog. What's the matter, is by accident a nurse putting haloperidol in your tea?
Colin...
You raise a most interesting point when you say Machiavelli died a poor man...
But do look up on Chanakya and his Arthashastra. He was more devious than Machiavelli having been born a few hundred years before... his plotting was successful as it led to the creation of the first true emperor of India - Chandragupta Maurya. His devious mind was so admirable that the dynasty lasted a long time. King Asoka was the grandson of Chandragupta Maurya... Now personally I like Chanakya more for the very fact you bring up... That Machiavelli may have written a theory on governance which it was in its simplest sense, but Chanakya actually saw his theories applied in real life and the results were spectacular... After all his pupil Chandragupta ruled a vast area of land which exceeds the present borders of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Bangladesh and Burma (I am giving a rough sketch, so please don’t hold me strictly to the area I describe)... Do look up Chanakya if you have the time... His thoughts are a most lengthy but delightful read…
Now to deal with the 2nd part of your question you must understand that my philosophy is rather intricate, extremely broad and as a result sometimes contradictory. However I overcome this problem by then reverting back to being a situationalist. To answer your questions of how each school of thought would have dealt with it (from my perspective, after all following someone else's thought strictly without thinking for yourself, would be cut and paste academia as voyager aptly put it in one of our previous discussions) so this is how I would answer it..
A Situationalist - the brilliance and the absurdity of this form of ethics/morals/thought is that it is always fluid and hence cannot be held to a certain statement except that it varies from time to time and from situation to situation. Hence plotting entirely depends on the situation and from the person’s perspective.
A Utilitarian – Now if you do not strictly follow what John Stuart Mill had to say on the subject, plotting would be good only for the greater good; however one may choose to interpret that as.
An Epicurean – First, I would like to clarify myself that there seems to be a common misconception regards Hedonism and Epicureanism being the same. They are not and I shall go into this some other time. However to get back to the point, plotting from an epicurean perspective would be distasteful, because from what I garner that school of thought holds the belief that one should take the simple pleasures of life rather than concern themselves with unneeded thought. This is proven in Epicurean philosophy that the god’s are made of a finer atom structure than the humans and hence live longer/eternally etc; he primarily said this, first to ensure that he did not fall foul of the religious bosses of the time, and second, to put at rest a matter which cannot be answered satisfactorily, thus ensuring that the time of his followers could be devoted to more practical things. So I would say that plotting to Epicureans would be most distasteful.
Ayn Rand / Objectivist – Would argue that plotting or anything else for that matter is all good as long as they do it out of their own free will. However there is a conflict in this for they believe that the same liberties apply to others, and hence plotting would infringe upon the liberties of others. So here it is a complicated issue to which I find myself unable to give a satisfactory answer to.
This is something I have just written from what little knowledge that I retain in my mind.
Hence I apologize if have been unable to give a more detailed and satisfactory answer.
Tedious
You will forget all that bollocks when you get into the real world.
All that matters is "how do I take their money without going to prison?"
Stick by those rules son and you will go far.
Peter..
As you put it once in the real world such philosophical thought will have no place... that is why I philosophise while I still can... And it makes a nice change for Ive spent the last couple of years doing nothing but partying and I was hoping to ensure that my brain is still working.. lol.. but I believe your right..
It isn't a bad working principle, is it?
Tejus,
Thanks a lot for your kind explanations and for making me aware of Chanakya and his Arthashastra. Always being very much interested in Indian culture, I am happy to have discovered by your recommendation Chanakya, a treasure of wisdom.
Peter,
Chanakya's advice was similar to yours: "A person should not be too honest. Straight trees are cut first and honest people are screwed first."
"A human being should strive for four things in life — dharma (duty), artha (money), kama (pleasure) and moksha (salvation). A person who hasn't strived for even one of these things has wasted life."
Croydonian,
You probably like this one: "In a state where the ruler lives like a common man, the citizens live like kings do. And in the state where the ruler lives like a king, the citizens live like beggers do."
Verity & Vikki,
What about this statement? "The world's biggest power is the youth and beauty of a woman."
Understandably, some people want to hide away their world's biggest power in a bag (burka).
Tejus,
Arun Shourie's site is one of my favorites because it brings an interesting Indian perspective. Maybe you could also blog a bit about India and its philosophy on your blog. I am sure that many people would be interested. An important part of Istanbultory's, Praguetory's and Croydonian's success is their geographical perspective. One of my favorite philosophers is Schopenhauer, an admirer of Indian culture and religions. Thanks again for enlighten me about Chanakya. I hope to learn more from you about Indian culture.
colin..
thank you for your kind words..
I intend to take your advice and blog something about Indian philosophy or politics sometime soon..
but its funny that you should bring up arun shourie's name.. my father and him, i fear do not see eye to eye.. as a result of my dad convincing my great uncles FIL to fire him sometime in the early 80s I believe.. lol.. funny you should bring his name up...
Yes, infact I believe I shall write an article about karma sometime soon.. but do not know how many people would be interested in that...
Tejus,
Your dad and arun shourie that certainly is a coincidence.
"do not know how many people would be interested in that...
Indian culture has many admirers in the Western world and not too many know about the Indian Machiavelli. Add to that the Indians themselves and a lively debate might develop if they make it to your blog.
From all the above - do I gather that Berlusconi and the lads had a day out?
colin...
I have just written the article on karma albeit it is a brief one..
I have also enabled comments for user not registered with blog.. so as to let witty commentators such as voyager and yourself comment there.. if you feel the need to... the article should be up around midnight GMT if you will still be online then...
colin...
I have just written the article on karma albeit it is a brief one..
I have also enabled comments for user not registered with blog.. so as to let witty commentators such as voyager and yourself comment there.. if you feel the need to... the article should be up around midnight GMT if you will still be online then...
A right wing demonstration? That doesn't happen very often.
Yes but it was on Saturday, so they didn't have to go to work.
Or in the evening like the leaseholders demo I will be attending next week.The country side alliance got 100,000 out didn`t they
I see Roger ram-jet is still trying to get everyone to go to his party. Picture the tragegy of a lonely bowl of cheesy dips and one fat bloke and you will have the scene .
newmania..
It takes one to know one.. So I would not know the kind of self-absorbed egoistic person you happen to be..
You are dojng for English what Sid Vicious did for "My Way ", ram -jet. Its quite invigorating in a immoral sort of way
He really is quite needy isnt he mr mania ?
ramalamadingdong you should be studying not blogging that or getting a girlfriend , trust me thats fun (for about two years)then you start to resent the bitch and think there are better ones out there , so you dump her and play the field untill one day you make up the fact that they arent bette and she was the one you should have married but now its too late and you will die a lonely death as a biter old bachelor
have a nice day
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